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Lindsay
USA
1806 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2002 : 7:56:39 PM
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I am interested, sisters, in how you justify wearing make-up (assuming most of you do).
A few months ago a woman I really respect as an intelligent believer responded to this question with "Why, I call it self esteem in a jar!" Now, I know she was joking- at least somewhat, but it seemed a little, well, off to me. What do you think?
(for the record, I wear make-up myself but am really sorting through the implications of this)
"Come now, let us reason together," Says the Lord" - Isaiah 1:18 |
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pipinoz
Australia
1482 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2002 : 01:13:52 AM
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quote: self-esteem in a jar
I know what you mean; this sounds a little off.
I for one, don't wear make-up, but that's mainly because I hate the smell and feel of the stuff (as does my husband). I do wear ear-rings, and try to look as nice as possible.
I suppose you're thinking of: Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as braided hair and the wearing of gold jewelry and fine clothes. Instead, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God’s sight. (1 Pet 3:3,4)
I suppose I take this as dressing appropriately for your culture, but not going overboard to make yourself beautiful by dressing yourself up with heaps of make-up, jewellery and designer clothing.
Now I've just got to work on that inner beauty stuff...
Pip |
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eva
USA
3233 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2002 : 1:08:41 PM
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My first reaction to this question was...like does God even care if we wear makeup or not. But then I started thinking about what it is saying bye wearing makeup. We are saying that we need to improve on what God made. hmm. Well, maybe we wouldn't have needed to wear makeup if we were not living in a fallen world.
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Ron G
USA
1161 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2002 : 03:17:48 AM
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This is just my opinion, not worth much as I am a man. (I don't know if a man is supposed to post on this topic or not.)
I live in the US (SC).
In today's society, around here at least, a woman who does not use makeup would really stand out. To not use makeup would make it difficult to find employment in most jobs. The employers just would not hire her. For those who like to go on dates, a lack of makeup would be a disadvantage in attracting the opposite sex. Men like women to be pretty.
Society and life are different now than when the bible was written. That's just a fact. A lot of stuff the bible required of women just wouldn't work now. (except for the poor women in Afghanistan, if you call that working OK)
To say that women need to follow all the rules (laws)in the bible is just not practical.
I know my wife would not leave the house at all if she could not put on her makeup. It does not bother me for her to look attractive. What harm does it do?
Have a great day, Ron G
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Abigail
USA
89 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2002 : 7:58:24 PM
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Hey, Lindsay.
Women have been wearing makeup a long time. It is not a modern invention. Just look at Egyptian hieroglyphics and check out the makeup. Henna is still customary in some middle eastern and Africian countries. In the Song of Solomon she perfumed herself and made herself attractive for her man.
As long as your life doesn't revolve around how you look I think it is OK. It is much more important how we act towards others then what we look like.
But we do not need to base our self esteem on how we look or we are headed for a fall. We must base our self esteem on the fact that we are created in the image of God and as Christians we are daughters of the King of Heaven and Earth.
In His love, Abigail
"For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places." Ephesians 6:12
Edited by - Abigail on 13 Sep 2002 8:02:17 PM |
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Ed
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2002 : 10:30:40 PM
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If a old barn needs paint then paint it. To the pure all things are pure. Thank God that He looks on the heart instead of the outside.
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Lindsay
USA
1806 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2002 : 10:37:27 PM
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"all things in moderation" as the saying goes. I think this is definitely applicable.
To me, when a woman puts on heaps of makeup, it's like she's saying "God, you didn't do it good enough, here, let me help" or when a woman is ashamed to leave her house without makeup, it's like she is ashamed of the way God made her.
I don't think either of these behaviors glorifies God. (In fact, we could make the argument that excessive makeup is forbidden, as Paul forbids women to adorn themselves like prostitutes, and a modern prostitute is characterized by excessive makeup)
I think I have satisfied myself with the simple promise that if I get to the point when I won't leave my house (uhmmm... dorm room) without makeup, I will seriously call my heart in for an overhaul.
Check out this article. This chick is one of my favorite christian writers/journalists:
quote:
Pay No Attention to the face Behind the Makeup by Sarah E. Hinlicky You have to be suspicious of a compliment immediately followed by a half-hidden apology. You know the kind: "Oh my gosh! You look so great! You must have lost weight! ;I mean, you looked great before, too. You always look great. You just look extra-great now." Inside that slush of praise is the real sentiment: I used to think you were fat. Or, along the same lines: "Can I just tell you how unbelievably insightful your comment in class today was? I had no idea you were so; I mean, I always thought you were pretty smart, but today;" Translated, Who would have thought a****** like you could come up with something so clever? It's a funny thing about our collective American personality ; we feel guilty giving compliments on progress because it implies that the recipient wasn't at the apex of perfection before. It's a silly thing to stress over. Be that as it may, I confess that it irritates me when I get it. My ego does not take kindly to the reminder that I am not already at the apex even when the rest of me knows better. But the example of this apologetic flattery to which I was subjected recently is one heard by many, and one, I think, which may represent a more significant cultural quirk than mere guilt-complimenting.
What happened is that I wore makeup. It was, admittedly, a dramatic departure from the usual for me. My poor mother has been pleading with me for nearly a decade to look a little more "professional": i.e., lose the embroided Indian sundresses, pluck your eyebrows (which, I insist, are already at the apex of perfection without plucking), and start wearing makeup. I have stubbornly refused, in part due to sheer laziness. I have no desire to become high maintenance. Luckily, my mom's plea is based neither in vicarious vanity nor social jockeying. She just thinks makeup befits a young woman wishing to command due respect and attention. She probably has a point, but till now I never took the bait.
What pushed me over the edge was the recent wedding of my roommate Jen and my consequent premiere appearance as a bridesmaid. In our school's elegant chapel, amidst dozens of roses, dressed in ball-length gowns, even I had to concede it was too formal an occasion to go without. Armed with the moral support of the bride and the comraderie of fellow bridesmaid Hilary (who'd had eerily similar conversations with her own mother), I approached hitherto untried territory: the Clinique counter at Macy's. (To those of you who have read my reflections on the temptations of mammon, I openly though ashamedly confess to a measure of brazen hypocrisy.)
I was a somewhat resistant patient. I flatly refused foundation and powder, and my "beauty consultant" really struggled to get me to try the eyeliner, the application of which I still haven't mastered. I was forced to reject out of hand the first supposedly stylish eyeshadow we tried because it made me look like I had a big black eye. At last the consultant caught on and started giving me everything in the color "nude"; the blush was even "nude-nude" in case one nude wasn't enough. That succeeded in calming me down and I finally finished my stint half an hour after Hilary, even though we'd both started at the same time.
After all those hypo-allergenic minutes squinting up at the consultant while she attacked my face with brushes and cotton balls, I became fascinated with her makeup, too: a flawless, poreless, minutely detailed mask that I vaguely wondered if I could peel off in one super thin layer. For me to achieve that look would take hours, but I bet she had her routine down to ten minutes. I didn't look like her when I was done, true. But I did look different.
That's when the slew of guilt compliments began. "Oh Sarah," I heard between sighs of feminine delight, "you look so pretty with makeup." Then the look of panic, the gulp of guilt, and the giveaway I-mean: "I mean, of course you're pretty without the makeup, too. You have such a healthy glow. But that eyeliner really does something;" If I hadn't heard that same line such a ridiculous number of times in a twenty-four hour period, I might have gotten a trifle annoyed. As it was, the whole business made me laugh. And I had to concede the point: I do look really nice with makeup. I mean, I look fine without it. But a little kick of nude this and nude that definitely adds a certain je ne sais quoi. It also tends to confirm the suspicion that my grandpa was right when he told me that men are the more beautiful sex: they never wear makeup and don't seem to suffer any for it.
The problem for me is that makeup is never just makeup. It's not simply about looking a little prettier. It's about a whole host of issues and fears and convictions that skip the physical and shoot straight for the psychological and spiritual. Like with my mom: wearing makeup means you're a professional, responsible adult to be taken seriously. I know of another woman who always wears makeup when she has to see her ex-husband because it feels like a wall of protection between her and him. Makes you wonder what Tammy Faye thought she was protecting herself from. My high school friends plastered on their Bonnie Belle and Wet & Wild like it was vaudeville grease paint to add years and sophistication. Plenty of women wear it to take off years. While I was being done up at Macy's, a lady in her ‘70s or ‘80s came to the counter for a new tin of powder. Her lipstick and blush were carefully applied; the morning ritual of doing her makeup probably helped her hold on to a bit of femininity and youth. I found it charming and appropriate. I could never understand, though, my freshman roommate's obsession with her makeup ; she could be practically dying of a stomach flu and yet would still apply the entire configuration of Estee Lauder before stepping out of her parents' house in the country to check the mailbox.
Most telling, I think, is the colloquialism that equates applying makeup with "putting on my face." What is that supposed to mean? I can hear it now: "Oh Sarah, you look so nice with a face. I mean, you look fine without one, too. But having eyes and a nose and a mouth just adds a certain je ne sais quoi;" I wonder what it says about our self-perception as women that we consider our natural faces inferior to our painted faces. Or that we don't consider our faces worth noticing if they don't hit a certain threshold of pretty. Or that we believe certain colors that never appear on human skin unless indicating grave illness can actually enhance it when in the form of eyeshadow (green = nausea, purple = bruise, yellow = gout).
Makeup isn't the only thing in women's lives to do this, of course. There is any number of substitutes for confidence and contentment that women use to make themselves more attractive. And they really are quite bizarre if you look at them with brutal objectivity. Diets equate certain foods with mortal sin and cultivate hunger as a virtue. Astringents take the oils away and lotions put them back in again. Deodorants replace human scent with artifical scent. Designer clothes trade money for social status. High-heeled shoes and tight pantyhose achieve something, maybe sex appeal, but it's hard to believe that millions of women consider the discomfort they cause worth the prize. We even take razors to our bodies and remove hair from places we deem it unattractive (legs, armpits), yet leave it completely intact elsewhere (eyelashes, head, arms). Is it just me or is all of this a little weird? And yet I can't imagine a socially acceptable lifestyle in this country that doesn't include at least some of those things; I'd feel uncomfortable and ugly if I didn't indulge in them regularly.
Then again, there might be something to the distinction between the pretty public face and the not-quite-pretty private one. Our less attractive moments are reserved for the ones we love. Roommates are the only people who see us first thing in the morning while our eyes are still full of gunk, our hair askew, our breath atrocious. Spouses are the ones who see us right before we go to bed at night, makeup washed off, a day's worth of cares etched into our faces, fitted stylish clothing exchanged for grimy old pajamas. It would never do to appear in front of the CEO during a hostile takeover looking like that; but if you couldn't look sloppy and unkempt in front of your husband or grandma or best friend, it would probably indicate a serious lack of trust. Appearances, after all, are all we have to go on out there in the harsh world, and it's a sign of respect to look nice and clean for a stranger. Like my mom always says when she's in an Oscar Wilde mood, "Only very shallow people are uninterested in appearances."
Going too far either way is a danger. It's foolish to think appearances don't matter at all. Nothing is more troublesome than denying how much attraction plays in to the mystery of love (who hasn't had a friend "like a brother" that no amount of rationalizing could turn into a potential lover?). What people show to the public says a lot about what they think of themselves. And yet at the same, to judge solely by appearances, or to take a shallow attitude towards appearances -- equating money with morality, or something equally judgmental -- is just as bad. That is why makeup (and all those other many and various things) ends up being exactly what we make of them: either just makeup, or a complete psychological profile.
Anyway, on that note, I must refresh my own makeup before I go out for the day. I always feel so naked without my nude lipstick.
Copyright © 2001 Sarah E. Hinlicky. All rights reserved.
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Abigail
USA
89 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2002 : 1:50:06 PM
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Lindsay,
lol.
So, this brings up another point. To shave or not to shave? When I was a teenager the "big question" for the french foreign exchange students was if the women "over there" really didn't shave their armpits. lol
We've been studying the OT at church. And Pastor talked about the fact that ancient Jews felt like if God gave you hair there it was suppose to be there for a reason and they did not shave it off. Of course, at this point my husband turns to me with his eyebrowed raised and a small grin in his face. He is remembering the time I decided to stop shaving (legs and armpits)and see what that was like. We both decided after a few months that shaving legs was optional but armpits were a must. lol
Of course, God doesn't care about that stuff but I know some churches that care alot about it. It is nice knowing I am free.
Yours in His love and laughter, Abigail
"For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places." Ephesians 6:12 |
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Gena L.
Canada
3 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2002 : 7:29:55 PM
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Hi, all. I am new here, actually I just came on with the intention of being a lurker but found this thread so interesting I just had to chime in with my two cents' worth. You may or may not ever see me again so . . . here goes!
First of all, I don't feel one really needs to justify the use, or lack thereof, of make up. At least to me, feeling that I had to justify it would imply I felt I was doing something questionable.
Now, having said that, I don't usually bother with make-up. I am a career missionary and after having spent eleven years to-date in the Andes Mountains it really isn't an issue for me except when I come back to north America.
Before going on the field I was a professional in management and had a certain "image" I had to project. I was totally immersed in a full "face" and, at least through the eighties, "big" hair. :-) That all changed when I hit the field and practicality became the key word.
I find it amusing when I come back to north America to experience people's reactions to my God-given, as opposed to Clinique-given, face. I find it amusing because I am secure in who I am and how I look without any chemical enhancements. My mum's stock phrase when I visit her is: "You aren't going out like that, are you?" or "Surely you aren't going out like that? You at least need some lips." Like I don't have any? :-o
Saturday I went to a celebration party for a friend who just received her Master's Degree at the age of 51. More power to ya' Gail! I've been living with her parents while in Canada so the whole family knows me. Well, I quickly realized none of them had ever seen me fully rigged out before (stunning upswept hair, full make up, suede dress in a lovely shade of plum etc.) It was so amusing to see their reactions. I got so many "you look beautiful" remarks that it made me wonder what they thought I had looked like before. Ha! A relative of my friend's whom I had met numerous times sat right next to me and asked, "Are you a friend of a Gail's" Yes, Min, and I was at your house two weeks ago. Hee, hee, hee. I started to wonder what they would think if I were to confess that I had been a finalist in the Miss "Anonymous City" beauty pageant my senior year of college (Didn't make it to the higher levels).
I think my point is, we should be comfortable with what we look like with or without makeup. When I use makeup it is typically for a special occasion, church, a party, a nice dinner out, the theatre etc. I don't feel bound to the brushes and pots nor do I feel guilt when I use them any more than I do when I put on a fancy dress.
With regards to 1 Peter 3:3-4 I believe that what it is saying is that do not concentrate solely on the exterior believing that is from whence your beauty comes but, rather, concentrate on your interior and there will be a beauty that radiates from your inner most being that not even the most skilled cosmotologist could ever duplicate.
Well, I seem to have gone from two cents all the way up to a quarter but. . .there it is!
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pipinoz
Australia
1482 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2002 : 01:14:02 AM
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Hi Gina, and welcome.
Since your post seems to have made it up three times, that makes your contribution 75c doesn't it? 
I enjoyed reading your thoughts, and hope you will post again soon. See you around.
Pip |
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aperson
United Kingdom
59 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2002 : 08:46:36 AM
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Lindsay:
This may be a topic where angels fear to tread... I'm a guy, but here goes:
If I came to work wearing lipstick and mascara...why, people would say: 'Hey, why are you wearing make-up? You're a guy!'
Okay, I don't, and I don't intend to.
But doesn't that kind of prove the point about who it isn't, and IS, appropriate for?
•Never mind what I say, but never neglect the Bible, God's Word
•Do you like pizza?
•Surfing the web is fun
•It's fun to wear an earring
•Stay healthy and get walking |
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Christabel
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2002 : 12:21:19 PM
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I wear a little, when appropriate, to enhance my appearance. It's like everything else I do (like wearing certain clothing at certain times, styling hair a certain way, etc.) to fit into my culture, and put my "best face forward" to others. Even so, I can't be bothered on weekends, unless I'm going out in the evening. When I think of the sheer effort required for people like Tammy Faye to apply and remove all that stucco on a daily basis, I want to lie down and take a nap.
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Earl of Orrery
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2002 : 7:53:34 PM
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Whatever you ladies decide to do about make-up and shaving... just make sure you don't go legal on others. There is nothing wrong with wearing make-up or shaving... there is nothing wrong with not wearing make-up and not shaving.
The only other thing I would say is that you will want to be aware of the cultural standards of the circles you travel in.
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Joyful_Sunbeam
USA
14 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2002 : 4:33:03 PM
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I'm glad you brought up this topic! It is my opinion that Christian ladies should refrain from using excess makeup, which detracts from us and makes us concentrate on appearence more then we need to. However, I also feel that makeup is acceptable in the workplace or for special events, provided that a woman does not slather her face with excess paint. Subtle makeup that brings out our features is acceptable, we just must take care not to focus overly on our looks or attempt to arouse lust in others. I do not believe young women should use makeup, as they already are placing too much emphasis on appearence and should be encouraged to develop their character instead of their looks.
Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfector of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down on the right hand of the throne of God. - Heb 12:2 |
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kristy
USA
30 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2002 : 9:30:01 PM
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Speaking as a woman who works full time and rarely wears make-up (it's a pain, I'd rather sleep those few more min. in the morning). I tend to think that make-up, like clothing style (as long as clothes are modest) is a matter of personal taste rather than spiritual concern. Some of my Christian friends wear some clothes that I think are down right ugly and not flattering. They love them and feel great in them. This is a taste thing not a spiritual thing.
Same goes with make-up.
The only time I see it becomming an issue is when image becomes your god. That can take many forms. Immodest dress, obsession with make-up (and that doesn't have to mean gobs of it, it could be an obsession with getting a very little bit just right) annorexia (sp?). . .In that case the issue isn't make-up the issue is self image and how you see yourself in relation to God.
I thank God that I know I'm free. I can dress up or leave the house in sweat pants and a t-shirt and He still loves me just the same. Therefor, I don't have to worry about it.
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Ashlyn
USA
2112 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2002 : 10:00:13 PM
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quote:
Speaking as a woman who works full time and rarely wears make-up (it's a pain, I'd rather sleep those few more min. in the morning)
Right on Sister! Make up is such a hassle, though I will break it out for 'super-special' occassions when I need to impress. But I couldn't do the every day thing. A positive to not wearing make up often is that your skin is certainly in better shape and aging will come more gracefully.
quote:
The only time I see it becomming an issue is when image becomes your god.
Great point and, in truth, I do think that is the heart of the matter. I have seen women scurry out of the sanctuary after communion to 'touch-up' and then try to sneak back in so that they will look their very best when church ends in the next 15 minutes and everyone does the meet and greet. In my opinion that is just silly and taking it too far. If anything that the Gospel teaches us about how Jesus viewed and treated women, how perfect their lip stick was would have been the least of his considerations.
Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who ask you to give the reason for the hope that you have. (I Peter 3:15, NIV)
Ash
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