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rena
USA
224 Posts |
 Posted - 28 Jun 2002 : 1:38:42 PM
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You're kiddng!
Is that a fact?
Do you mean it?
Most of us say some of these things during
conversation, but I am wondering what we all
think of truth? Is it all right to tell little white
lies? How do you feel about telling half-truths?
What about disclosing only those things you
deem necessary for the hearer--is that lying?
Let's talk about lying . . . and honesty.
Rena
Edited by - rena on 28 Jun 2002 5:43:44 PM |
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gdg65605
USA
1589 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2002 : 4:46:14 PM
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rena,
99 percent truth and 1 percent lie, is 100 percent lie. And a truth told maliciously is still a lie, because it's told to hurt and cause harm.
Greg |
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rena
USA
224 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2002 : 5:49:32 PM
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Greg --
I want to read more: How can the truth told
maliciously be a lie? If it were true, for example,
that you stole my 1889 silver doller, so I told
your friends at your church about it, would that
be a lie, or is it purely malicious gossip?
What is the difference? Is all gossip lies, or
could some gossip be absolute truth?
Rena |
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Ron G
USA
1161 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2002 : 04:53:05 AM
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I know that most of you won't agree with me, but I think is is a matter of intent.
What is the purpose of what we are saying?
Sometimes, in my (wrongful?) opinion we are better off to tell a white lie. I'm talking about if someone ask us something and we know the whole truth would hurt their feelings, go ahead and do what would make them feel good.
(example- "How do you like my new furniture?" some owner of new stuff might ask. If you don't like it, you could be honest and say "It sucks! You have lousy taste!". OR- you could say " That looks nice." a white lie. I say 'white', as the intent was to do some good, not harm.
Please be nice and tell me you think I'm right on this, even if it is a lie, Ron G (kidding)
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gdg65605
USA
1589 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2002 : 07:43:15 AM
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quote:
I want to read more: How can the truth told
maliciously be a lie? If it were true, for example,
that you stole my 1889 silver doller, so I told
your friends at your church about it, would that
be a lie, or is it purely malicious gossip?
What is the difference? Is all gossip lies, or
could some gossip be absolute truth?
Rena, I apoligize, I said that badly, the truth told maliciously, is as bad as a lie. Truth as truth is liberating. Truth with a malicious spirit behind it, is used for nothing but harm, and is just as bad as lying about someone. A better example might be if you heard a member of your church accidently hit his finger with a hammer, and say a bad or foul word, and you went to church and told everyone that you heard the man cussing. Even tho you are speaking truth, your in far greater trouble with God, that the poor guy who accidently hit his finger.scripture for that would be Gal 5:19-20quote:
19. Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20. Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
He made a honest if carnal mistake, you would be flirting with spiritual disaster. A lot of people think that they can say anything about anyone, as long as it's true. But what is the intent of their heart. They might be far guiltier than the person they are attacking.
Greg |
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Sctt
Canada
149 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2002 : 11:31:16 AM
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Their is no such thing as a little white lie , a lie is a lie no matter how you color it. Mt.5:37 ...let your communications be ,Yea,yea;Nay,nay:for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.
In Christ Scott |
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rena
USA
224 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2002 : 6:28:12 PM
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I agree with Greg and Scott that a lie is a lie, no
matter what the teller's intentions, but I find that
many believers disagree with me and say, as
Ron has stated, that it depends upon the circum-
stances.
Ron, I happened to be in my old church when
the assistant pastor did not know I was there,
and he did exclaim some angry words that
really shocked me. I had forgotten about that
until I read your post. No, I did not tell it around,
but I did ask my daughter and husband if what
he had said really meant what I thought it did. I
can see what you are saying regarding telling it
about.
Another concept brought up was when someone
asks what we think of something--like ugly
furniture (we just bought some--shall I say
"interesting" furniture yet to be delivered, so this
one is also interesting to me). What do you say
to someone who asks, when your taste differs
greatly from theirs?
Rena |
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Lindsay
USA
1806 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2002 : 9:34:22 PM
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How about:
"That is so you!"
"That is so uniquely your style!"
"It's so colorful/fun/bright/unique!"
"Wow. Is that as comfortable as it looks?"
etc. I guess it's all along the idea of "If you can't say anything nice... say something ambiguous" |
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rena
USA
224 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2002 : 12:36:36 AM
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I fully agreee with you, Lindsay, yet some believe
that to be lying. They believe that unlesss the
whole truth is told, not skirted as you suggest, it
is a lie.
Rena |
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gdg65605
USA
1589 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2002 : 07:13:21 AM
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quote:
I fully agreee with you, Lindsay, yet some believe
that to be lying. They believe that unlesss the
whole truth is told, not skirted as you suggest, it
is a lie.
Ah, but how many people when asking your opinion, actually want a compliment? Is this lying? My wife really doesn't want to know if that dress makes her look fat, the new mother isn't really asking you if that brand new baby is beautiful, and your neighbor doesn't really want to know your bad opinion of furniture they just spent a fortune on.Ezk 14 quote:
4. Therefore speak unto them, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Every man of the house of Israel that setteth up his idols in his heart, and putteth the stumblingblock of his iniquity before his face, and cometh to the prophet; I the Lord will answer him that cometh according to the multitude of his idols;
Hey, if God can answer a retorical question in a retorical manner, ought not we be able to answer the same as well? Honest questions deserve honest answers, regardless, but if someone wants a compliment.............................. we're required to be wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
Greg
Edited by - gdg65605 on 30 Jun 2002 07:18:37 AM |
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rena
USA
224 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2002 : 11:28:21 AM
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So you suggest, Greg, to tell people only what
they want to hear?
Rena |
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gdg65605
USA
1589 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2002 : 2:51:32 PM
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quote:
So you suggest, Greg, to tell people only what
Nope. An honest question deserves an honest answer. I'm suggesting that if someone is looking for affirmation, a compliment, an ego stroke, if someone needs to feel good, and they ask you a question that is designed to invoke a favorable response, truth isn't what they are looking for.
What is gained by telling the new mother her baby in just ugly, or my wife that that dress makes her look like she gained 20 lbs, or the neighbor that they have incredibly poor taste?
You might walk away justified at you "honesty" but you have caused harm, hurt someone needlessly for nothing more than your own ego gradification. How is this justified by scripture? How does this please God?
Greg |
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Ron G
USA
1161 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2002 : 3:53:32 PM
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Thanks Greg,
I finally found someone who can vary a little bit from the law and understands 'good intent'.
Common sense is not a common thing.
May you all have a great day.
Ron G
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Lindsay
USA
1806 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2002 : 4:02:37 PM
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I have to agree with greg here, it's a sticky issue, but think about it: what would Jesus say if Mary Magdalene walked up to him in a hideous bright pink mumu and asked "does this make me look fat?" would he have been brutally honest and said yes? would he have lied and said no? My guess is that he would tell her she was beautiful to Him no matter what she wore. What if a lady brought her hideously ugly baby to Jesus to be blessed and said "isn't he beautiful?" Jesus wouldn't exclaimed at how hideous His father's creation was, he would have probably honestly told her the baby was a beautiful child of God.
I don't think there is anything wrong with evading a question when there is no "right answer" - Jesus did it all the time with the pharisees by simply refusing to answer their question, but reminding them of a relevant scripture.
in defense of truth though, in most situations, even those that seem very difficult, there is usually SOME way to be honest without being hurtful. For example if a man's wife asked him if something looked bad on her, and it really did, he doesn't have to say "Man, that makes you look like a pregnant emu" he could simply say, "It's alright- but did you think about wearing your green dress? You look so gorgeous in that." Even if it's something you can't think any way to answer nicely- how about "Well it's not really my style, but..." if someone likes their ugly furniture/dress/baby, and are happy and satisfied with it, who am I to say they aren't entitled to their opinion? |
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rena
USA
224 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2002 : 6:56:21 PM
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Please . . . a moment of silence. I am trying to
imagine that pregnant emu thing. . . . 8o)
Got it, sorta. 8oD
So you advocate not telling the full truth at all
times? You advocate telling what is necesssary,
what can be said and still retain the speaker's
and hearer's dignity? You say that a substitute
truth for the hurtful truth is acceptable?
I agree with you that a substitute truth for the
hurtful truth is acceptable and righteous, but I
don't think that a lie should be substituted for
any truth. Do you agree?
Rena
Edited by - rena on 30 Jun 2002 6:59:13 PM |
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Lindsay
USA
1806 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2002 : 7:49:54 PM
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Yeah, I totally agree there.
If I may also add a comment- I think discernment is really important to metion when we talk about "substituting kind truths for cruel truths." When I read back through my last post I thought I should mention that- I mentioned that personal preferences are one's right, but I think I should add as long as sin or immorality is not involved. As we know, there is a huge difference between the question "Does it make me look fat" and "Do you think it's okay I'm attracted to the same sex?" |
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Oh, honestly! Are you for real?
