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aiki
Canada
594 Posts |
 Posted - 06 Jul 2003 : 1:59:13 PM
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Hello, all.
Kyledow:
You wrote:
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I have somebody to love, and I love him. We will be getting married in 2006 (which is our plan) in a Christian Church called "Living Hope." Aren't you happy for us?
We will live an awesome married life together and will be very happy.It'll be just like a heterosexual couple, but two guys instead.
Kyle, God has promised a very different future for you and your friend. Scripture states that the "wages of sin is death". (Ro. 6:23) This is death not just of an eternal sort, but of more immediate things like joy, peace, health, and relationships. Homosexuality is clearly established as sin in scripture (Lev. 18:22; Ro. 1:25-27; 1 Cor. 6:9, 10) and so those who engage in it can expect the accompanying death that God promises. And God always keeps His promises. It is for this reason that I could never be happy to hear of two homosexuals marrying. I find no joy in knowing that you and your friend have decided to venture down a path of self-destruction and have willfully chosen to stand under God's judgment.
Proverbs 14:12 says, "There is a way which seems right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death." Kyle, your relationship with your boyfriend may seem right, may feel right, but the end thereof is death. God has established what is true and what is right and when our feelings and desires run counter to what God has established we must refuse them. A child may feel great contentment playing with his toys in the middle of a busy roadway, but it would be a wicked parent indeed who accepted and embraced their child's choice to do so. Is it cruel for the parent to call their child from the street to the safety of the yard and, if necessary, to bodily remove them from their happy but potentially lethal place of play? Of course not. So, too, with God. He calls us from our play in the roadway of sin because He sees the danger in that play more clearly than we do. We may object to Him ruining our fun, but He would be a wretched, unloving Father if He did otherwise. God's way is a narrow way, but it is ultimately a safe, joyful and life-giving way.
Be wise; choose life.
In Christ, Aiki.
Jesus said, "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life: no man comes to the Father but by me." Jn. 14:6 |
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kyledow
Canada
107 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2003 : 5:41:03 PM
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Aiki:
I'm not going to TRY to love and TRY to be attracted to somebody who I'm not.
I can see why God says murdering, stealing, lying, swearing, not obeying thy father and mother are sins. In this case, my mom told me when I was eleven that she doesn't care who I am in the long run, just be yourself. Six years later, I know for sure that I'm gay and she's proud of me. She said, "Doesn't it feel better not pretending anymore?" I obeyed her by being myself. My mom didn't say "Go kill your father", "lie to your grandparents", "swear at a police officer", or "go rob that bank." She told me to be myself, and I'm gay.
If God says Im going to hell, and when I die I go to hell, so be it. I'll be happy to serve Satan if God won't accept who I am. |
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Todd
USA
422 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2003 : 7:12:40 PM
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If God says Im going to hell, and when I die I go to hell, so be it. I'll be happy to serve Satan if God won't accept who I am
Kyle, God loves us despite who we are, but there is a price for sin. That is the why of Jesus. The how, though, is we must repent of our sin, and accept the free gift of Christ's finished work on the cross; repentence entails two things - turning from one thing and to another.
It isn't easy for any of us. I had addictions to porn, and alchohol which God has delivered me from. I found both of them to be very fun - sin always is, or else there wouldn't be much of a choice, would there? But the fact is they are destructive, both here and eternally.
In my case, porn and alchohol break up countless families, cause untold deaths (drunk driving), ruin careers. In your case, the chance of gay men contracting aids is extremely hightened (all the facts about "more new cases belong to heterosexuals last year" doesn't really matter. 95-97% of the population is heterosexual, so the fact that so disproportionate a number of aids victims are homosexual tells you alot). Gays have a life expectancy of somewhere around 30 years less than heterosexuals. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 1 in 5 gays will be raped or brutalized by his partner at some point. Need I go on? The here and now why not is every bit as clear as it is for porn, alchohol or drugs.
Eternally? It is clear what God's word says about the act. Remember, eternity is an awful long time. |
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lovely_one_me
USA
48 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2003 : 7:14:09 PM
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| Leeprice I agree with you 150% I thought I was the only person that felt that way, I myself am heterosexual but have always been bothered by the judgment of homosexuals by heterosexuals. I went to a Lutheran school for 9 years and was taught by my school and my parents that God does not look at sin as one being greater than the next. I feel that having a holier than thou attitude only intimidates the lost. If you want someone to know God let them know that you know you're a sinner also. Sometimes I feel that people focous on what they want to focous on for example a person may feel I have premartial sex, talk about my neighbor behind his or her back, watch porn, or have told lies here and there but I am not a homosexual so I can judge them. I know so many that are straight that attend church every Sunday, pray to God thank him for all he has done, have asked to have had premartial sex obviously with no shame have lusted for someone and than past judgment on someone that is homosexual. I'm not disagreeing with what Mrs. Rodriguez is saying I just feel that no human being christian or not can be so harsh about the actions of another when just as Lew took the verse out of my mouth Romans 3:23 'For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.' Thanks also please visit http://www.ipotts.freeserve.co.uk/ianp1.html |
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lovely_one_me
USA
48 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2003 : 7:35:56 PM
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| There was also a mention of the children being improperly influenced by this tv show. There are more airings of premartial heterosexual sex on tv, movies, commercials than the airings of any type of homosexual sex. It appears to me we should be more concerned with our children seeing the tons of exposure to premartial sex, crime, drugs, rape, degrading of women in music than that one homosexual tv show. Thank You |
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Steve Wilson
USA
160 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2003 : 8:35:16 PM
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Why is it that you classify homosexuality as an illness?
Because it is an illness of the mind or sickness of the mind.
As I used myself as an example, when I became obsessed with a few women I became sick or ill in the mind. Had I seeked help, I could have recovered faster, but I choose to tough it out and it took me a long time. I don't blame myself or you. It can seem easy to fall into the pit of loving the wrong type of person, However it is still your (or my) fault for letting it happen.
To say I can only love other men is silly. It's just as easy to love women as it is to love men. So I don't believe in the "It's just the way I am " theory.
Men and women are like 2 pieces of a puzzle. Different in shape and mind but when together they make a fit or a complete piece. What confuses gay people is when they see that a person of the same sex appears to be the same piece of the puzzle, they think it means they are a match and CHOOSE this type of lifestyle.
I'm sure I speak for the rest of us here. Despite what you have said, we will all pray for you. We do want you to be happy, but in life there are a few rules...in this case eternity in heaven has a few rules.
I pray for myself and everyone to be able to walk that line.
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Under God |
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aiki
Canada
594 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2003 : 9:18:08 PM
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Kyle:
You'd be very surprised, I think, at the changes God works in a person who chooses to walk in loving submission to Him. However, until you have received God's gift of salvation for yourself you cannot be other than you are: a sinner bound in sin. This is true for anyone who lives apart from God. I would not ask you to do the impossible and change your core nature; only God can do that. Neither God nor I are asking you to try to love differently than you do; you cannot. God, though, can change who you are at your very core -- if you'll let Him.
You wrote:
quote:
I can see why God says murdering, stealing, lying, swearing, not obeying thy father and mother are sins. In this case, my mom told me when I was eleven that she doesn't care who I am in the long run, just be yourself.
It is this determination to "be yourself" that separates you and all men from God. It is man's nature to sin and there is nothing noble or wise in embracing this nature. As far as God is concerned, Kyle, your homosexuality is just as wicked as stealing, lying, or murdering. He would rather you lived differently and, at terrible cost to Himself, has made a way for you to do so. He is very serious about keeping you from Hell.
You wrote:
quote:
If God says Im going to hell, and when I die I go to hell, so be it. I'll be happy to serve Satan if God won't accept who I am.
Kyle, there is no one to serve in Hell. You will be utterly alone and in agony there. Be assured, your present rebellion toward God will not be worth the price you will pay for it. God, though, has set a different course for you if you'll take it. Never forget that your freedom from the destiny of Hell is only ever a choice away.
In Christ, Aiki.
Jesus said, "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life: no man comes to the Father but by me." Jn. 14:6 |
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Palto
USA
74 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jul 2003 : 07:55:05 AM
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Greetings kyledow,
There has been a lot of information presented here, and probably not of the type that you may see as comforting. The time we spend here in our carnal bodies is but a twinkling of an eye when compared to eternity. I realize that separation from the homosexual lifestyle is inconceivable to you at this point, especially when things appear to be just as you desire. Anything that we may say regarding your path in life is mute bar a dramatic change in your life. We all have the propensity to want immediate results to our desires. This is especially true when the results have such far-reaching effects. Though it may not appear as such, the whole reason people here have denounced your sexual preference is because they truly care about what happens to you. Sometimes speaking the truth in love can appear hateful, even if that is not the intent. The fact is, that GOD has given us the ability to accept or reject His grace to us and He does have great desire to know each and every one of us. So even if the advice seems off the wall at this point to you, I will ask you to remember some of what was said here. GOD has a desire to know you, just as He knows me. Perhaps in another season of life the Creator of all that exists may find a place in your heart, and there will be rejoicing in Heaven!
Palto
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saar
USA
9 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2003 : 12:20:28 AM
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In the eyes of God sin is sin. There is no variance. There are no grays. Sin begets sin and cannot beget anything that is good. Homosexual sex is sin, not by my own beliefs, but by the Words of God! Lev 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. Some will argue that it was religious prostitution, so-called shine prostitutes having sex for money. However, if one will bother to read the entire chapter they will also find reference to adultery [vs. 10], sex with animals [vs. 15-16], and incest [vs.17].
One of the contributors of the NIV is in fact a lesbian. Dr. Mollenkott, one of the literary consultants for the NIV translating committee, is a professed homosexual. This is verified by her own words in an interview in the Episcopal publication, Witness (June, 1991, pages 20-23). The interviewer, Sue Pierce, asked the question, "Why was it important to both of you to come out as lesbians?" Dr. Mollenkott's reply was, "My lesbianism has always been a part of me. I tried to kill myself in my teens because they told me I'd never be healed, that God had no use for people like me. I couldn't stand the thought of living a life that was useless and offensive to God. I tried to be heterosexual. I married myself off. But what I did ultimately realize was that God created me as I was, and that this is where life was meaningful." http://www.biblebelievers.com/Graham1.html
The NIV is a contaminated bible. Dr. Mollenkott, a professed lesbian, has done what any other sinner would do when it is their own personal sin that has been attacked - change the words and their meaning to mitigate their guilt. In the KJV Bible, God calls homosexuals sodomites in I Kings 14:24; 15:12; 22:46; II Kings 23:7. Whereas Dr. Mollenkott's NIV has conveniently replaced the word sodomites with the term shrine prostitutes.
I recently read a posting by a sodomite at another site where [h]e accuses the apostle Paul of being “homophobic” because Romans chapter 1 condemns it. Consider what God has proclaimed about His written Word in II Ti 3:16-17 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
Modern sodomites have tried to disguise their sin before a Righteous Holy God by changing it to a malady of those who dare to oppose their sin by labeling it homophobia. No matter how loud a sodomite proclaims the “correctness” of his or her sexual preference, it does not negate what God has labeled sin. Ever watch a “gay rights parade” and see a line of sodomites hold each other hand in hand? Pro 11:21 Though hand join in hand, the wicked shall not be unpunished: but the seed of the righteous shall be delivered.
All manner of sin can be forgiven including the sin of homosexuality, but one must first admit that homosexuality is a sin, and that who commit such are indeed guilty of sin. Otherwise redemption cannot be obtained. The Lord will not redeem an unrepentant sinner. Psalms 34:18 The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit. Psalms 51:17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.
Before anyone jumps up and starts pointing to the New Testament and try to excuse their sin, remember that the God of the Bible is the God of the ENTIRE Bible. What was a sin in the Old is a sin in the New.
Unfortunately most who call themselves Christians are in fact, not. Baptism has never saved a soul, neither has good works, or acts of penance. Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. One must first bring that broken heart, that contrite spirit [psalms 34:18; 51:17] and the sincere desire to repent - Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent. Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Without these, one cannot even hope to approach the throne of God and beg for His free Gift of Salvation, the Lord Jesus Christ. Why you may ask? The pride of life stands between the sinful heart and a Loving God. I John 2:15-17 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth forever.
The sin of homosexuality is the only sin that God has promised to give its adherents a reprobate mind. Webster's 1828 Dictionary defines REP'ROBATE, n. A person abandoned to sin; one lost to virtue and religion. Titus 1:15-16 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate. Rom 1:22-28 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonor their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshiped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
To any and all who read this post, whether you are a sodomite or not - There is no forgiveness of any sin without Christ Jesus, and there can be no redemption for any sin unless your heart is broken and your spirit contrite because of ALL of your sins. All who practice homosexuality in any form and refuse to admit to themselves and to God that they are guilty of an abominable sin before Him - God will turn that person over to a reprobate mind, because they have in fact called God a liar. And God will not continue to strive with those who call Him a liar. There is a point in every sinners life where they can step beyond that point the Lord has drawn in the sand. Beyond that point they become reprobate and become utterly damned without any hope of redemption.
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Edited by - saar on 09 Jul 2003 4:08:27 PM |
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chirhofollower
USA
174 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2003 : 3:58:20 PM
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I've aften wondered when I hear the word Homosexual Agenda exactly where this agenda is hammered out. Is there some sort of caucus... one would think that ABC would carry it.
I also wonder what exactly is the Heterosexual agenda. we can't seem to get along within a family, a church, a city, a state, a nation, a world..... much less come up with a common agenda.
Unless you consider the basic desires for liberty, love, food, shelter, security of self and family, and dignity. If so then I would say we all have the same agenda for ouselves, we just don't think anyone else deserves it.
Agnus Dei, qui tollis peccata mundi, miserere nobis. |
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PJ
USA
118 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2003 : 1:26:06 PM
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Kyle,
First of all Kyle, you will not go to hell for being gay if you are a truly saved child of God. But that does not mean that there will not be consequenses in your life if you continue to live in sin. This is why homosexuality just like murder, lying, and stealing is a sin...Rom.1:27..."Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due." This is what the bible says (God's word) And in Ephesians chapter 5 it talks about marriage and how God how God set it up and created man and woman for eachother. You see Kyle, God had a plan when he made this earth. The plan was for a man and woman to be together and to create other human life together - how amazing is that. The problem with homosexuality is that it clearly says in Romans 1:27 (above) that it is a sin and that there will be a penalty. Homosexuality is also extremely painful in the beginning - I know because I went through it with my uncle. I also know that the more you live in sin the harder it is to feel conviction in your life therefore relieving the pain and allowing you to continue in sin. You compared homosexuality to that of lying, stealing etc. You know we all sin and mess up, but the key in our relationship with God is repentence. If we continually live in sin we can have no fellowship with him. We must confess our sin. The problem with living an openly gay lifestyle is that there is no repentence and therefore no forgiveness of sin. The homosexual feelings in themselves are not sin as long as they are not acted upon and are confessed as sinful. And through counseling they can be overcome.
Kyle, homosexuality is like pornography or alcoholism. It is a sin and a problem. It is not WHO YOU ARE - it is what you have allowed sin to make you. That's like me begging my husband to give up pornography because it was ruining our family and him saying "well honey, this is just who I am." As hard as an addiction or something like homosexuality is to overcome by the grace of God it can be done.
Let me ask you something - you mentioned your mother...was your father around while you were growing up? Was he a part of your life or distant from you? What might he have to say about your homosexuality? Just some honest questions and I hope you are willing to give some honest answers.
Pauline |
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kyledow
Canada
107 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2003 : 9:24:46 PM
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"Let me ask you something - you mentioned your mother...was your father around while you were growing up? Was he a part of your life or distant from you? What might he have to say about your homosexuality? Just some honest questions and I hope you are willing to give some honest answers."
Yes my father was around, and still is. He was apart of my life, just as much as my mom. He wouldn't like me being gay. He hates gay people with a passion.
For him being in my life, my whole life, I don't see why I could help being gay, even though I know he'd hate me if he found out. Believe me. When I was REALLY young, maybe 3 or 4, I'd kiss boys at my school. People tried to make me like girls, but I never had that attraction. Growing up I've ONLY gotten ********s and turned on from guys, and still do. Women's "body parts" have always disgusted me beyond belief.
I WILL NOT marry a woman, have sex with one, date one, kiss one, make out with one, or touch them sexually.
I'm not giving up gay sex, my boyfriend, or my support/acceptance from my friends. Coming out defeated my fears, my shyness, and my lack of friends. I'm popular now, I'm no longer shy or scared of people and society. This all happened at the very time I came out to all of my friends. We bonded more than ever, and they're all heterosexual.
If I will burn in hell for eternity for having a boyfriend, let it happen. You can't "fix" homosexuality. You can never make me want to have sex with a woman. You can never make me attracted or 'erect' to one. They disgusted me before I knew I was gay and still do. I want a partner in life who I'm attracted to, want to marry, and want to have sex with. I can't get those with women.
Catholic, Jewish and Christian churches marry gay people in Ontario. That is the BIGGEST contradiction I've ever heard. Religion has become society's *****, pardon the pun.
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aiki
Canada
594 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2003 : 12:37:54 AM
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kyledow:
Hey, check this out. You're described almost perfectly in Romans 1:29, 32.
"Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness....Who knowing the judgment of God, that they who do such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them."
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Coming out defeated my fears, my shyness, and my lack of friends.
Except with your father, of course.
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You can't "fix" homosexuality. You can never make me want to have sex with a woman.
No, I can't, but God can.
Kyle, God is the master of the carrot and the stick. On one hand, He offers you life with Him, abundant with peace, joy and fulfillment . On the other, He promises a life without Him will end in eternal, fiery judgment. Only the foolish choose the stick. "For we know Him that has said, "Vengeance is mine, I will repay" says the Lord...It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." (He. 10:31)
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Catholic, Jewish and Christian churches marry gay people in Ontario. That is the BIGGEST contradiction I've ever heard.
Well, it is a contradiction of God's Word -- of that you can be sure. Ultimately, it matters not what a church may do; only what God commands each of us to do. Corrupt churches do not justify sin.
In Christ, Aiki.
Jesus said, "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life: no man comes to the Father but by me." Jn. 14:6 |
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kyledow
Canada
107 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2003 : 10:47:11 PM
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Aiki:
I AM NOT CHANGING
Your mind can't adapt to the mind on a homosexual level. You can't say "I know this about gays because I read it in the bible." No. It doesn't work that way. If you aren't homosexual, you don't know what Im thinking. You don't know how I feel, how I act, or even how I look. Open-Mindedness is a great thing which you fail to see. You can't say homosexuals were treated right back in the 1900s-1950s when they were descriminated against, and killed. I know you didn't say it was alright, I'm just explaining that going to that extreme is dead wrong.
As a friend, I'd support and accept homosexuality. I wouldn't pray for my friends to try to "get better." It's a part of who they are. That's like saying, since you're faulty, I'll try to make you better. In my eyes that's disgusting. If ANY of my friends told me they'd pray for me to lose my homosexuality, I'd never associate with them again and probably kick their ass. That sickens my stomach more than anything in the world that someone would say that to someone else.
To be honest, I'd rather get told to "eat ****" than to get told someone is praying to take apart of who you I am away from me.
You might not see this as something normal or something that should be accepted. I do, my friends and family do.
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paralambano
Canada
2806 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2003 : 12:35:53 PM
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Kyle;
You say you're disgusted beyond belief by women's parts. I'm willing to accept that this is true in your case. Are you willing to accept the fact that many are disgusted with your union and way of having sex?
10, 9, 8, 7, . . . |
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