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Goodster
Canada
656 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Dec 2002 : 8:49:13 PM
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Christians Say Hitler Was an Atheist?
Based on his words, Hitler was a Christian. Even if he was an atheist, this wouldn't somehow make Christianity true. This claim is little more than a ham-fisted, Bible-inspired debating tactic-the association of atheism with evil. It is an exceedingly hypocritical ploy because the Holocaust followed centuries of anti-semitism and pogroms instigated by the Bible and the Church, which labeled the Jews the murderers of Christ.
Theists will say that Stalin and Mao were atheists as well. Maybe they were. So what? It is very likely that Hitler, Stalin and Mao did not believe in leprechauns. This would make them aleprechaunists, people without a belief in leprechauns. Would these mass-murderers' aleprechaunism prove that leprechauns exist? No. Does this show that aleprechaunism is evil? No, it does not. Now, do Christians believe in leprechauns? No. So Christians are aleprechaunists, just like Hitler, Stalin and Mao were.
And Christians who make this claim about Hitler need to be asked what they think the eternal fate of the Jews is? According to Christian theology, all the Jews who suffered and died during the Holocaust are now or will someday feed the fires of hell. Doesn't this make the god that Christians worship worse than Hitler?
Frightening, isn't it?
Goodster
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Faithwalker
USA
777 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2002 : 9:51:40 PM
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"Christianity is an invention of sick brains,"
Adolf Hitler, 13 December 1941.
"So it's not opportune to hurl ourselves now into a struggle with the Churches. The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death," Adolf Hitler, 14 October 1941.
I don't think that Hitler was an atheist, but he was not a Christian either. While he was materialist and rationalist in a lot of things, he also talked a lot about "Providence", or "Nature", as a sort of mystical force of fate, and he saw himself as somehow destined for victory even when the war was going badly for him, simply because of the purity of his purpose, his strength of will, and his feeling of destiny. I have even read that he believed in reincarnation.
Did Einstein believe in God? "I believe in Spinoza’s God who reveals himself in the harmony of all that exists, but not in a God who concerns himself with the fate and actions of human beings." The rock of Einstein’s faith was that the world is rational.
The fact is, the world doesn’t have to be rational. It can’t be proved to be. But to Einstein, what made science possible was this faith: causes lead to effects not by anyone’s changeable will but by the operation of natural laws. For him the greatest sacrilege was belief in miracles. If miracles were possible then knowledge of truth was impossible because there would be no truth. He felt no awe for a willful, human-like God but for the brilliant simplicity of the laws that have guided the evolution of the universe.
"Whoever has undergone the intense experience of successful advances made in science," he wrote, "is moved by profound reverence for the rationality made manifest in existence." He named this special reverence "cosmic religious feeling…which knows no dogma and no God conceived in man’s image." Cosmic religious feeling he defined as awareness of a "spirit manifest in the laws of the universe — a spirit vastly superior to that of man." This awareness, he believed, was "the strongest and noblest motivation for scientific research." A
And scientific research to him was "the only creative religious activity of our time." Which may be Einstein’s theory of why great scientists so often feel drawn to the imagery of God: those who experience cosmic religious feeling will tend to be more deeply dedicated to their work and thus more likely to become great scientists.
"O foolish ones,and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! Ought not the Christ to have suffered these things and to enter into His glory?" Luke 24:25-26
Defender of the Faith
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modig
USA
1587 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2002 : 11:02:39 PM
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Faithwalker could you provide a source for those quotes?
I don't know much about the topic, but I've seen a similar thread with many quotes from Hitler expressing things that make him sound Christian. I think they were from a book called "Table Talks." Of course there is no reason he couldn't have said different things at different times, I expect nothing less from a politician.
--modig |
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Jesus is Lord
USA
79 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2002 : 03:35:35 AM
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Hmm.
Hitler was warped.
If he WAS a Christian, he sure didn't live it. But I doubt that he was.
~I believe in the promises of God enough to base an eternity on them.~ |
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Faithwalker
USA
777 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2002 : 4:27:28 PM
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The source of the quotes that I gave were from the book Hitler's Secret Conversations 1941-1944 published by Farrar, Straus and Young, Inc.first edition, 1953, contains definitive proof of Hitler's real views. The book was published in Britain under the title, Hitler's Table Talk 1941-1944, which title was used for the Oxford University Press paperback edition in the United States.
"O foolish ones,and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! Ought not the Christ to have suffered these things and to enter into His glory?" Luke 24:25-26
Defender of the Faith
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sword of truth
United Kingdom
400 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2002 : 05:29:24 AM
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hitler was not christian but he was also not atheist as he belived in a god.
and well the catholic church backed the holachast maybe he was catholic. but does it even matter. just because a person who is 'evil' follows a faith doesnt make that faith bad.
you can not blame a majority for the actions of a minority.
'The only Sovereign you can allow to rule you is reason'
Edited by - sword of truth on 16 Dec 2002 05:30:13 AM |
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Cryptonomic
USA
93 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2002 : 07:48:53 AM
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Just thought I would point out a link you all might like to check out.
The Religion of Hitler
I am not vouching for any particular point of view here. To me, Hitler was a monster regardless of what religion he ascribed to or what lack of belief he had thereto.
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wannabe
USA
385 Posts |
Posted - 23 Dec 2002 : 6:04:02 PM
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Hitler was a ROMAN CATHOLIC, the Roman Catholic church supported and hid the German soldiars and disguised them as "Catholic Priests' to escape the enemy.
The Roman Catholic church, the "mother" of christianity is worshiping Satan. YAHWEH has "exposed" its nakedness and now (as the prophecies are being filled) you will only see it getting worse.
The Pope doesn't bear the "sign" of "Mithra" for nothing, it has been foretold. |
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mobstyle
USA
1785 Posts |
Posted - 23 Dec 2002 : 6:53:52 PM
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Ladies and gentlemen.
We have rehashed this topic on the forum so many times that I cannot stand it any more. Hitler was not a Christian, but rather made a concerted effort to wipe out the Christian church, not as a political entity, but as a religion. The reason for this is obvious. Someone who believes that "Love your neighbor as yourself" is the supreme moral code governing human interaction is NOT going to sit idly by or participate in the gassing of 6 million Jews and countless other political prisoners. This is so basic that it's unbelievable that people still claim that Hitler was a Christian in any sense of the word. For proof, please follow this link to the Nuremberg papers. These are OSS (Office of Strategic Services) documents from British intelligence during World War II documenting detailed Nazi plans to wipe out Christianity as a religion, pure and simple.
Politicians lie constantly, and if anyone thinks that an insane politician like Hitler had any devotion of any kind to telling the truth is being grossly naieve. Atheists and agnostics who harp on this point constantly point out quotes from Hitler's books/speeches in which he claims Christianity. What they don't realize is that, first of all, there are just as many quotes in which he damns Christianity, and second of all, TALK IS CHEAP. Just because someone (particularly a politician) claims to be a Christian (because they want to rule over a largely Christian nation) does not a Christian make. It is far more important to look at the actions of such people, rather than their words. A concentrated effort to wipe out the Christian religion is an excellent reason to think that someone (surprise!) is not a Christian at all.
Here is a link to a CBS news story on the papers. Pay particular attention to the second paragraph, please:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/01/10/world/main323950.shtml
And here is the link to the papers themselves:
http://www.lawandreligion.com/
Click on the section entitled "The Nuremberg Project" for access to this information. I really hope this clears up the old, fallacious, and tired "Hitler-was-a-Christian-so-Christianity-is-evil" argument once and for all.
Russ
"Knowledge is changeable, truth is eternal. It is disastrous to confuse the two."
--Madeleine L'Engle |
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